From Noise to Sound
How do today’s leaders cut through the noise and shape the future?
In each episode of From Noise to Sound, host Dr. Dimitrios Marinos, from the Department of Marketing and Communication at HSLU, dives deep with CEOs, Board Members, and industry innovators to uncover the forces reshaping our world. Through insightful conversations, he explores topics like digital transformation, consumer behavior, and sustainability, revealing strategies and innovations that are driving real change.
Gain actionable insights and fresh perspectives on navigating a complex business landscape. Tune in each month to sharpen your view on leadership, tech-driven success, and what’s next in marketing and beyond.
New episodes every month, brought to you by HSLU, Lucerne University of Applied Sciences and Arts.
From Noise to Sound
Lukas Bigler - The Hidden Strength Driving Switzerland’s Economy
In this episode of Noise to Sound, host Dimitrios Marinos sits down with Lukas Bigler, Head of Small and Medium Enterprises at Swisscom, to explore how Swiss SMEs are shaping the country’s economic and digital future. Representing 97% of all businesses in Switzerland, SMEs are the backbone of the national economy agile, innovative, and deeply rooted in local values.
Bigler explains that the ownership structure of many Swiss SMEs enables faster decision-making and greater flexibility than large corporations, allowing them to innovate and adapt quickly. Many operate in highly specialized niches, yet compete successfully on the global stage, embodying Swiss quality and precision.
The discussion turns to key challenges facing SMEs today: geopolitical uncertainty, rising labor costs, and the urgent need to embrace technology and artificial intelligence.
On the topic of talent, Bigler observes a major shift. While SMEs once struggled to attract skilled professionals, consolidation in larger firms has released new talent into the market a valuable opportunity for growth-oriented SMEs. In contrast, forward-looking firms are bringing in younger talent, fostering innovation, and embracing digital transformation.
Bigler also discusses Swisscom’s strategic role as a trusted partner for SMEs. He emphasizes the company’s focus on data sovereignty, reliability, and local proximity, positioning Swisscom as both a technology provider and a critical national infrastructure partner. Trust, he notes, is the foundation of every successful digital transformation journey.
The conversation touches on the balance between data protection and innovation. Switzerland must safeguard its data, Bigler says, but also remain open to global collaboration. A hybrid approach allows SMEs to determine which business elements should remain local and which can be optimized through international partnerships.
As the episode concludes, Bigler reflects on leadership, purpose, and adaptability. He stresses that passion, empathy, and curiosity are essential qualities for both entrepreneurs and young professionals. His message is clear: the
How do today’s leaders cut through the noise and shape the future?
In each episode of From Noise to Sound, host Dr. Dimitrios Marinos, from the Department of Marketing and Communication at HSLU, dives deep with CEOs, Board Members, and industry innovators to uncover the forces reshaping our world. Through insightful conversations, he explores topics like digital transformation, consumer behavior, and sustainability, revealing strategies and innovations that are driving real change.
Gain actionable insights and fresh perspectives on navigating a complex business landscape. Tune in each month to sharpen your view on leadership, tech-driven success, and what’s next in marketing and beyond.
New episodes every month, brought to you by HSLU, Lucerne University of Applied Sciences and Arts.
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[0:05] Hello in the podcast from Noise to Sound. I'm Dimitri Osmarinos.
[0:08] So today I'm going to present to you a topic that's actually very hot. One of the topics that actually most of you have asked to discuss. We're talking today about small medium enterprises. And of course, it's best to invite Lukas Bigler from Swisscom, head of small medium enterprises. So welcome, Lukas. Thanks for the invitation. Thanks for being here. So one of the topics that is very relevant,
[0:35] as I mentioned, in the Swiss market is definitely the small medium enterprises. So Switzerland has 97% of small medium enterprises with around 50 to 60 people, right? What makes these SMEs so special?
[0:52] Yeah, from my point of view is, so they, the most of them are owned by private persons. So the decision processes are much more quicker than on the corporate side. So they do not use, for example, if you have a negotiation, they do not use so many legal people on the table just to get to a closing. And I think what I learned also with some interactions with SMEs is that they are very innovative. So some of them are very international players, maybe not known as though, but very, very innovative and driving things ahead. Sure. So, I mean, that's what Switzerland is known about, also the companies as well.
[1:37] Most of the small medium enterprises are inside the niche, very strong and actually well known over globally, let's say. So they don't operate just locally, they just operate globally. Now, I would assume now we have a very digital world. There's a lot of manufacturing also in Switzerland. So what do you see from your perspective? I mean, you're in this market for a very long time. You know SMEs very well. Where do you see the challenges that this company is actually having at the moment?
[2:06] Yeah, beginning from a more geopolitical perspective. So the uncertainty on the markets probably is affecting them quite heavily as well, especially if they have a highly export-oriented business model. So this is one point. I think one point is just to use also technology to drive things ahead because labor costs in Switzerland are very high. So they have to rethink how they do their business in the future just to remain competitive compared to the global players or some other companies. So I think these are the issues and topics and challenges that I see at the moment.
[2:48] Well, there is also someone who is in the corner. I would say AI is in the corner. So, of course, we know that AI is something that requires skills, requires capacity, requires also investment. So how does such a small, medium enterprise really come strategically, let's say?
[3:09] Let's say, have on its own business AI as a tool, as an instrument? I think for me, the first beginning is that every company reflects what does this technology mean for their business model. So I think it starts with the board or the executive board just to get into this topic, to really understand what does that mean in terms of doing things differently. So I think that's the first step. And then what I see a lot of those companies already within this topic doing quite a lot of things already. And there are some, you know, they just get into the topic and learn what does that mean? Because I think the most difficult thing is to find the point where to start with.
[4:00] Yeah, of course. And I think one of the things where, I mean... I've seen also very often in the markets, right? So a couple of months, even a couple of years before, it was very hard from small-medium enterprises to find the right people, right? Now the big companies consolidate, right? And there's more skills in the market that these small-medium enterprises can find as a pot and use it for their own good on, let's say, the strategical goals. So I think this might be also something that's an advantage or a disadvantage, Let's say for some part of the market, but advantage, let's say for small, medium enterprise. I don't know if you see that as well. More and more skills coming as well in the SMEs. Yeah. So I think the lack of knowledge, lack of skills is everywhere. But I think it's an opportunity, as you say, maybe that also this technology can help just to rebuild things and multiply also skills. Because one of the examples I saw that was a big corporation.
[5:05] Losing a lot of people, well, senior people losing a lot of knowledge and they use this technology to make sure that the younger people get all this knowledge and they ramp up much faster on skills than that was possible before. So I believe this is a huge opportunity to use it. I also think the same and I'm happy that at least, you know, When I was before discussing with small-medium enterprises, they were all saying the same, you know, we don't find the right people. It's hard for us to grow because of that.
[5:39] And I think this combination of labor availability, let's say, in the market, skills in the market, plus AI will, of course, can be a great opportunity for those who really want to make the turn. But on the other side, there are companies which are not going to make the turn, let's say, which perhaps have the Nokia effect or, you know, the Kodak effect. And they would say this is not for us or we are in a different game, It might not be present in the market in the next years. And that's a fear that a lot of SMEs also have nowadays. I don't know how you see it. If you see examples that you really see that some companies really doesn't get the fact that they have to change right now. It is a crossroad to change this time of this period, let's say.
[6:28] So what I experience is it all depends on the company owners. And if they maybe are at an age where they more think about selling the company, not driving the innovation so that far. So there might be a reason that some of them may not get into this topic anymore. But I see a lot of companies and also companies who really bring in younger people with the knowledge to drive things, to learn fast. So I see both sides and I believe AA at the moment is a little bit the hype, but it remains a revolution. So my personal opinion on that is that if a company is missing.
[7:15] This kind of wave, we are into it because for me, it's the same with electricity. It was, it was the same with internet. It was the same with mobile. And I believe that this is now the fourth big thing, which will shape also the Swiss economy fundamentally. And every company needs to understand what does that mean on their business model. And there are some companies that may be in a different kind of, for example, mechanical work, probably there will be different kind of angles you have to look at rather than on more administrative jobs and consulting companies, whatever. So I think the same. I mean, we've seen it also that the services business is changing. And now you give me a nice pass because you are in Swisscom. Swisscom for me, it's like the bedrock of the SMEs is standing behind,
[8:10] is done that for years and the SME sector, the small medium enterprise sector was really relying on Swisscom, to grow, to have at least their back and they could focus on their business.
[8:25] So is it also something strategical for Swisscom for the future? How is the perspective of Swisscom, let's say, to support this, major part of the Swiss economy, because it's not just business. Yeah, it is the backbone of Switzerland. I know. So it is essential that we play a relevant role in this segment. And I think what we see is that they are the most loyal customers that we have. So they stay with Swisscom for quite a long, long time, because they build also their business on this backbone that we can deliver. Sure. And I think also the geopolitical situation at the moment is a big chance for us as well. Yes. Because we are Swiss-based, we're a Swiss company, the data remains in Switzerland, so we can help just to build that on that foundation. And this, I believe, is a huge chance for us, but it's also a chance for all SMEs in Switzerland.
[9:27] I think exactly that is for me as well. I mean, the SME is coming to Swisscom because of trust. That's true. That's primarily, of course, technology and your skills. It's undisputable, but trust is in the core. Yeah, and proximity. Yeah, proximity. Because what we see is, you know, we've been working for an international company. Sure. And so we are, you know, within three hours, top management is on site if needed. So this is a huge... No, but for us, it's really proximity is key because the trust, as you said, that comes also with proximity to understand the problems and to act quickly. Yeah, I think this proximity is exactly what small, medium sector needs, because then they feel also comfortable to keep on what they're doing, which is not easy to compete in a global market as a small Swiss SME. And as you mentioned, having all these costs running, I mean, you have high labor costs and so on and so forth. Now, as Swisscom, though, if you are the bedrock and you do the backbone of the SMEs, who is the backbone of you?
[10:33] Myself no i mean i mean of course you rely also a lot on technology on one side yeah you rely
[10:43] a lot on your people right so i think swisscom is relying a lot i mean to me i mean from outside of swisscom it was always like swisscom is building trust because it has the right skills as well in a swiss low proximity so you can call as sme someone comes not only the management not only Lukas can come, but an expert.
[11:06] And actually, that's a huge advantage, let's say, when you have to rely on Swisscom as a company to someone. Our backbone are our people, are the employees at the end of the day, because it's also our culture. Because Swisscom has a very, every company has a very specific culture. And I think that makes the difference. Just to go across the organization to help our customers to solve problems.
[11:33] This is really deep in our DNA. Yeah, and I know it's not only the customers, you're giving backbone, of course, to someone which is a little bit bigger and very much more important, like the government itself. I mean, the governments are relying a lot on Swisscom itself. And I mean, the company, the government is running also a lot and relying a lot on Swisscom. Yeah, because we are a critical infrastructure provider in Switzerland. Exactly. So the security parts, the data parts. Yeah, sure.
[12:02] I mean, you are also in the DNA of the government. So now there is a lot of discussion and everyone is talking about sovereignty. I mean, this is, to me, there's a technical aspect and there's a cultural aspect. I mean, Switzerland has always been very much Swiss. We want to hold it in our hands. Yes. If it's not Swiss, it doesn't work.
[12:26] Swiss finish and Swiss quality. Yes, it's absolutely clear. And I think the discussion now that we are making, we have, you know,
[12:36] trends like AI in one side, we have huge data pots of one side, and then we're talking about sovereignty. And Switzerland is a strong country, but not the biggest in the world at the same time for such infrastructures. So from your perspective, how critical is the sovereignty for Switzerland in these terms? And how do you think this part of technology for the Swiss market is going to be challenged, let's say, in the next years?
[13:09] I think this is a hard question, Divi. Because for me, it's not a question of black and white. Because for me, it relies on the business model the company has. Because if the company is very international, probably they need another approach than if they're just using or mainly the market is Switzerland. So I think we see a hybrid approach. So to decide which workloads we want or which business we want to have and data within Switzerland, which one is not that critical that we can use also international products because the market is turning. So software as a service offerings are increasing. And that means that every company needs to get a clear plan. Also SMEs. What do we want as a service? What is important to have in Switzerland? And that's a thing we can help to sort it out. Yeah. I think you do.
[14:12] I also see the same most of it. I mean, I see also a hybrid approach. I mean, you cannot have everything, not only for Switzerland, I'm saying for every country.
[14:22] And you're losing innovation power. Yes, exactly for that reason. I mean, Switzerland was always, and is actually currently, and been for a long time, number one in innovation. And you want to keep that pace by going back and have full sovereignty. Of course, you have everything in your hand, but at the same time, you're just somehow tight.
[14:46] When you see how heavily it was invested in ai switzerland cannot do it on its own so, i mean if you want to be ahead then we need to use this technology and really as i said to find out what is necessary to keep in in our hands and what is more the the way to use technology to drive innovation with the power that comes from an international scale yeah obviously obviously that's the synergy that you're trying to build at the end of the day because in such a world you cannot go alone anymore.
[15:21] That's true you cannot go alone anymore even for the biggest players like you mentioned we see it also in the market they cannot go alone anymore so if we go just a step back let's say and see a little bit from the Swisscom perspective,
[15:36] you are now in the SME part of Swisscom you're leading this segment. So as you personally, as Lucas, so what do you find interesting, challenging, or where would you like to focus more? Let's say as a manager, let's say, what is your focus, let's say, in SMEs? So let me answer this a little bit to give you a little bit the context of our business. So everyone knows that in Switzerland, the telco piece is under price pressure. So we are the market leader, but also losing market shares. So there is more the challenge, how do we get into a business model that helps us to keep those SMEs with us, to deliver added value and all this stuff. So this is more on the telco side. We have a huge opportunity to grow in the IT space.
[16:34] But this also means that we need to build up new skills and be very clear what can we deliver for SMEs and whatnot. What are we doing with partners? So the SME approach in our segment is really a multi-channel approach. And this brings complexity. Because i'm coming seven and a half years from direct sales business corporate business sales and it's different it's completely different and for me that was interesting to get in this new opportunity because i learn a lot every day about the market about dynamics about things that works out and for me as you as you ask for me as a manager i think my motivation was to get into it is there's so a lot of transformation needed. Yeah.
[17:27] So that we can say we're successful in five years' time as well. Yeah. And this was the main motivation for me to get into this topic.
[17:38] Yeah, and I think, I mean, I very closely work with public sector for myself, but I think it gives you an added satisfaction when you work either public sector or small, medium enterprises. You really have a feeling you help the local market. Yeah, that's true. and it is an intrinsic motivation. Let's say, you know what? My impact is visible either in the public sector or in SMEs, which is the backbone of this economy at the end of the day. Yeah. And I think... So it has a higher mission, as you said. It's for the Swiss economy. And if we do a good job, then I think we can help that also Switzerland remains, you know, as rich as we are and being a prosperity country and have also to safeguard also the living that we have. Absolutely.
[18:33] I mean, therefore I'm saying, I mean, SMEs, it's much more than companies. It's actually something that you need to preserve it. And if it's 97% of this market, it becomes a completely different mission, as you mentioned.
[18:47] Yeah, and you say, because what I find, because I have a lot of friends having their own companies, and what I prefer, when I compare me as a manager rather than an entrepreneur, so he has his own money into the company, is much more the skin in the game. And no, but also you're looking for the people, how they drive things. So I'm really impressed with all the SMEs are doing for Switzerland and for the economy. It's not easy because now they compete so globally. I mean, the pressure that they have is something, I would say, much newer than before, a much different level than before in any case. So they need someone to lift off the weights of their shoulders, let's say, at least on the IT side so they can focus on the core business. Now, as you as a manager, you had also your own motivation, as you mentioned,
[19:41] to come to the SME sector. but for me it's also, Being a leader, I mean, you have also had your own companies. You've worked in Swisscom for large corporations, let's say, in the sales now in SMEs. Now, what is your leadership style? What do you like? I mean, if I ask one of your, let's say, employees, what do you say? How is Lucas?
[20:07] That's a tricky question. I know. It's a good question. So you need to ask them yourself. But I would say Lucas stands for a clear vision. He stands for change. So when Lucas is coming, then it's always clear that a lot of things are changing, hopefully for the better.
[20:29] They would say probably proximity really is one thing that's very important for me. And I strongly believe in a trust culture. So because trust for me or a safe environment where we can speak up where we can you know also challenge each other is the environment i like to create and also to have people that challenge me because i believe that brings us further and i would say that's the style i stand for but also proximity i'm very close to people i think i think definitely, that should be, let's say, especially if you're in sales, that should be your... DNA. Your DNA. Your DNA. But at the same time, I would like to twist it a little bit and say how much of this comes...
[21:19] From from your personality and how comes from of that comes from i mean from your entrepreneurship background because you have been an entrepreneur so you you burn your skin first and then you you come into to a company to support to help them right so it's completely different if you've been a career manager all your life and it's a little different if you have been an their partner as well. I mean, how much of that impacted your style?
[21:46] A lot. Yeah, because I grew up in a family with their own business. So I only learned from my parents how important it is to be close to people, to be straight, but fair, to support people, to be close to people. And that's a thing that's really deep in my DNA. And also my big belief, also now having a big organization and proximity from master's leaders is crucial that also because everyone is working for someone, Not for a company, but also for people. It's people's business at the end of the day. Yeah, right. And that thing, I believe, is very important. And it comes from, you know, from my early beginnings and when I grew up, but also from my experience when I had my own company. Yeah, I would assume that. I mean, there's a lot of talks. Usually, once an entrepreneur, always an entrepreneur.
[22:46] And it's not about being an entrepreneur. It's the mindset, I would say, right? Yeah, I agree. And I think that makes a big change. And I think that's an added advantage. If someone has been in the shoes of an
[22:58] entrepreneur, you can have support, let's say, your customers, your peers in the best way possible. Yeah, but it is different. When I came to Swisscom, it's already 21 years ago. So my take this way was just, I came to Swisscom to introduce BlackBerry. So it's a long time gone probably some of the audience maybe didn't know but.
[23:25] My take was just to stay there for two years and then to leave it became a longer time but the reason is I always had some my own leaders they gave me the freedom to shape things to try things out and that's probably also the reason that I stayed with SwissCop,
[23:44] Now, I would like to ask you a last question. So there's a mixed audience usually. There's, of course, students, but they're young, let's say, professionals. Now, the market is changing. You know the market a lot more than a lot of people, but you know the inside out. Since you've been an entrepreneur, you've been in sales, you work for an organization who has visibility everywhere. So what would you propose to a person who would either change a career or say looking forward a bit five years from now or a young student where would you bet uh why would.
[24:22] Propose them if they want to have a career like yours or let's say are already professionals that want to make a change why would you let's say from your experience it doesn't have to be correct because no one knows that's a million dollar question but how why would you propose, for me the most important thing is just to to find out for what do i burn, because my experience if if you have the passion for things if you have the willingness to learn and to adapt doesn't matter what you're doing but if you have this kind of ingredients, i'm sure that everyone can have a good career and also to be clear what you don't want to do.
[25:11] Because just to do things because of the career but you don't have as I said you don't burn for it or you don't feel the passion or you're not sure if that's the right thing don't do it, actually that's a very fair point I like this perspective know what you don't like because it's equally valuable knowing what you like, that's actually wonderful thank you very much Lucas for being here today thanks for having me no it was a pleasure thank you for the insights in the market I think it wouldn't be someone better to actually give us this snapshot and these insights as well or your feeling about the market thank you very much and also from your side thank you also for being present I hope you enjoyed the discussion with Lucas and we're going to see you in the next series thank you very much bye bye.
