From Noise to Sound
How do today’s leaders cut through the noise and shape the future?
In each episode of From Noise to Sound, host Dr. Dimitrios Marinos, from the Department of Marketing and Communication at HSLU, dives deep with CEOs, Board Members, and industry innovators to uncover the forces reshaping our world. Through insightful conversations, he explores topics like digital transformation, consumer behavior, and sustainability, revealing strategies and innovations that are driving real change.
Gain actionable insights and fresh perspectives on navigating a complex business landscape. Tune in each month to sharpen your view on leadership, tech-driven success, and what’s next in marketing and beyond.
New episodes every month, brought to you by HSLU, Lucerne University of Applied Sciences and Arts.
From Noise to Sound
Vanessa Foser : Love It, Change It, or Leave It, strive for conscious Leadership
In this thought-provoking podcast, Vanessa Foser—a C-level executive, AI strategist, and leadership coach—shares insights into digital transformation, leadership, and the power of purposeful networking.
Vanessa begins by identifying a common challenge among executives: not just a fear of missing out (FOMO), but a deeper fear of making the wrong choice in a rapidly evolving tech landscape—what she calls FOBO (Fear of Better Options). She explains that this hesitation often leads companies to delay critical innovation steps, which ultimately becomes costlier than taking calculated risks.
A core theme of the conversation is that digital transformation is not just about tools—it’s about people. The major obstacles aren’t technical, but cultural: lack of trust, unclear communication, and resistance to change. Vanessa stresses that empowering teams with knowledge—what she calls “swarm intelligence”—creates alignment and unlocks internal innovation. When people understand the purpose behind technology, they use it better and more responsibly.
She provides real-world examples of AI implementations gone wrong, such as poor communication bots or automation missteps that damaged customer relationships. These failures often stem from applying AI without proper training or human context, underlining Vanessa’s belief that leaders must consciously decide what to automate—and what must remain human.
An important part of the discussion focuses on networking and leadership visibility, particularly for women. Vanessa outlines three core principles: preparation, authenticity, and purpose. She encourages approaching networking with curiosity and clarity—understanding who you’re meeting, being genuine, and having a reason to connect. She also offers strategic advice, such as preferring lunch meetings over dinners to maintain professional boundaries and avoid social ambiguity.
Vanessa also highlights the importance of mentorship and sponsorship in advancing women’s careers. While policies on diversity are necessary, real change happens when individuals within organizations take active steps to support and advocate for others.
Her personal mantra—"Love it, change it, or leave it"—sums up her philosophy: be clear on your values and make conscious decisions about where and how you work. For Vanessa, true leadership is about clarity, confidence, and aligned action. She se
How do today’s leaders cut through the noise and shape the future?
In each episode of From Noise to Sound, host Dr. Dimitrios Marinos, from the Department of Marketing and Communication at HSLU, dives deep with CEOs, Board Members, and industry innovators to uncover the forces reshaping our world. Through insightful conversations, he explores topics like digital transformation, consumer behavior, and sustainability, revealing strategies and innovations that are driving real change.
Gain actionable insights and fresh perspectives on navigating a complex business landscape. Tune in each month to sharpen your view on leadership, tech-driven success, and what’s next in marketing and beyond.
New episodes every month, brought to you by HSLU, Lucerne University of Applied Sciences and Arts.
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[0:00] It's not fear of missing out, not the FOMO, but it's fear of better options. So due to the enormous speed, you're scared that if you invest today in Microsoft, in Copay, in whatever, that maybe in one or two years, the investment was a mistake. And so what companies often do is they say, there is so much going on. Let's just wait until everything is figured out and then we will do whatever everybody else is doing.
[0:26] Hello and welcome. This is the podcast from Noise to Sound. I'm Dimitrios, your host, and today I have a very special person, a young woman actually who is very well networked in Switzerland. She's held many roles in C-levels. She's done a lot in the AI business school where she actually has run together with peers for the last eight years and actually helped a lot of companies to make the next level. So actually on the other side a very energetic personality so I think we'll all have to learn something from her.
[1:06] Music.
[1:13] Hello, Vanessa Fosser. Hello, really nice being here, Dimitrius. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here. So I think it's one of the, let's say, podcasts that I was expecting so long. It was also neat easy to find you. But for me, it is also relevant because I
[1:30] think you are one of the faces that you are known in the market in terms of your work that you have done at C-level, but also at the AI business school. So for me, let's ask the first question. Obviously, I would like to understand what are you doing and why are you actually doing it? Thank you. So sorry for being so hard to reach. No, no, it's also fine. But now it worked out and we're in the perfect room with the AC on. So for me personally, it was always about the passion that I have for things that I'm doing. So it's all about authenticity, so to say. And my main belief actually is that change is happening where technology meets capital, but also mindset. So I very often try to be the bridge between vision and implementation.
[2:23] Between C-level and new ideas, and also between AI and real humans. So I really believe in this symbiose of different things. And that motivates me because I really want to create something better, something that can help. And yeah. Yeah, of course. I mean, I've seen, we have seen you have worked or
[2:43] you're working with C-levels from very well established companies in Switzerland, of course. So now, of course, when you work with C-levels, you talk in a very strategical level. I mean, not operational, not, let's say, technical.
[2:56] So what do you think are the top three or let's top three is a bad question but let's say the main concerns that this C-level have when they have to make this transformation this change actually that they have to do anyway otherwise it might be, a fatal for the company and the strategy itself, So I think the main topic or the main challenge is that AI or any new kind of technology is very often connected to fears, right? First of all, what it means for me, what it means for my company, and also how it functions. So this kind of understanding of a very new topic that also can have elements that are quite complex is a first challenge.
[3:38] As soon as you actually understood that and you understood what you want to do for your company, for your customers, for your employees.
[3:45] That it's really about changing structures of power that have been existing for a long time. That is very difficult because sometimes you maybe even need to crash down things that you are very passionate about or maybe that are relevant for your identity, so to say. Kill your darlings, as they say. Yeah, for example. Yeah, exactly. And also maybe look in the mirror and say, okay, the world will be different. How important will I be in the new world, right? And then lastly, I think the big challenge is really about bringing people on to the journey to really change. Because I think everybody knows, and that's not about technology, we're all animals of routine, right? And if we're used to standing up every morning, doing our coffee, going for a jog, it's difficult to just relax or the other way around, right? So the main challenge is that change really means a different way of thinking, a different way of acting and really like finding a new world, so to say. Yeah.
[4:45] And I think you mentioned it before. I mean, offline, you make this Fobo, which I find very interesting because I think I've never heard it before. Perhaps it's the first time I had the chance to hear it. So I would like you to explain it because I haven't heard it before. So go ahead. Yeah.
[5:02] So you need to imagine that at the moment, due to the very quick development in AI, so artificial intelligence, there are so many new things that you hear, right? You hear about Copile, about DeepSeq, about the new models from Antrofic and so on. Yeah.
[5:21] There is like this new word that you said, FOMO. It's not fear of missing out, not the FOMO, but it's fear of better options. So due to the enormous speed, you're scared that if you invest today in Microsoft, in Copay, in whatever, that maybe in one or two years, the investment was a mistake. And so what companies often do is they say, there is so much going on. Let's just wait until everything is figured out and then we will do whatever everybody else is doing.
[5:51] But that is a very big mistake because, as I mentioned, the last reason, what is a big challenge for companies is adoption, right? Change. Change management is not happening overnight. So if you for three or four years don't do anything in the field, it will be harder for you to catch up in four years time. So this fear of better option is something that is the feeling. Having that feeling is completely like normal. And it's also good because it's true. You don't know what will be happening in the future. but what is relevant is that you start moving that you start deciding and that you maybe build up environments where you are independent of technology solutions so you call it agnostic systems right so to say so you're not dependent on microsoft but you could take out your prompts and your different systems and plug it into google or plug it into deep seek or whatever and so fobo is actually and i mentioned that to you like the really the next kodak moment right If you miss out on that, your fall down will not be due to not being innovative, but because you did not manage to transform your people and your business. Yeah, I think the people in the center. So now you mentioned a very valid point. We see in the market right now a lot of fear from a lot of people that all these changes will have an impact. We see that they have an impact somehow.
[7:17] I remember a year before when we were discussing about these new technologies and AI.
[7:22] Well, people were against it because they thought they would lose their jobs. And there, of course, a lot of investments have been done by companies, exactly for the change. And to justify these investments, a lot of jobs have been cut and we see it also in the market.
[7:39] We know that new jobs will come in the market. But it doesn't mean that the people will follow those jobs, right? So what's your take on that? What should companies or, on the other side, the people itself, I mean, the employees, should we run behind those changes all the time? We as employees or the companies themselves behind the employees and the trends? How do you see that point? So I think that's a very important topic and that fear I see very often, right? Also myself, personally, I mean, I'm in the field of AI for eight years now, but I still am afraid of certain things that are happening. So it's not that only if you know more, the fears go away. But I think it's important, first of all, that change actually starts there where fears are really taken into consideration. So the best AI project that I actually were part of where people re-understood, it's not about technology, but it's about trust. And it's really about taking them on the journey instead of like replacing them. So my recommendation, first of all, is that either you are at a company and ask for like also education to understand better how it works. Or you take your personal time and really figure out what works best for you. And it's really like learning by doing.
[8:59] There are different kind of courses that you can take for free. There are like courses you can do like which you pay for it. But it is really, the comparison is very easy, but it's like doing a new sport. If you start running and you want to do a marathon, right, in some months, you also don't start with a half marathon to test or to prepare. But you start with like everyday courses. Consistent training maybe at first you do 20 minutes and after sometimes you're ready for 30 minutes then you're like coming to an hour and it's never linear the progression so maybe the first week you're completely motivated and every day you're getting quicker and then maybe after two weeks time you get slower your ankle is hurting or you're not feeling the best so that's normal so also ai or like skills in ai will not be linear yeah at one moment of time you think like now I mastered it. And then you will like have a prompt or like use certain tools and you're like saying, that's not what I wanted. Now it's like somehow like a throwback, so to say. So I think it's important to be open and hungry. There are no stupid questions, so to say. I think so. Yeah. Otherwise you don't have change, right? Yeah. And just find maybe people that can help you to understand the basics and then find a way that you are consistently trying to get better at it. So you, in an AI business school on one side, you did a lot of training for companies, let's say.
[10:27] There's two sides of the coin, right? So I am a company, I mean, we have seen other companies or more companies doing it, let's say, and they engaged institutes to do trainings for the sake of the training that we have done it and you couldn't follow. Or at least it's a ticket in the box. And there are companies who have said we invest because we believe without this, upskilling, upgrade, there's no chance that we will make it. And I think this is both sides of the coin.
[11:00] But on the other side, what do you think, I mean, definitely or certainly you have made mistakes along the way, but what do you see the opportunity for the companies in terms of the trainings that they have for the adoption, as you mentioned?
[11:13] So I think there's like one important word that is like is used often like in psychology and also in leadership setup. So I did like leadership workshops like earlier during my study times. And the most important part actually is swarm intelligence. Swarm intelligence. Swarm intelligence, yeah. So you need to give people the tools that understand the basics and enable them to understand the overall rationale, but then they will be smart enough to find their way around. So they will tell you, for example, So like, let's take AI Business School as an example. In the past, we actually had people scripting the different lectures, right? They were like researching, putting into place, putting into like a script. Then we had people that actually like managed all the equipment, like the green screen and like having a nice location, organizing the trips for the lectures and so on. Then we had one like team that was just taking the clip, right? And then there were like speakers like myself that needed to prepare according to a script, Needed to know everything by heart, needed to look good on that day, have a good energy and so on, and then be able to perform that script, right? But then, like when AI was coming up with all these options, we saw, oh, there are like tools like HeyGen or Synthesia where I can create my own avatar in two minutes.
[12:37] And the avatar can look the best version of yourself because you really take the time for the two-minute video to look the best version of yourself. But after that two-minute video, you upload it. You need to go through certain tasks that it's not used for deepfakes so that it's secure. But after that, I can use my two-minute video from my avatar to create hours and weeks and months of content of myself talking about certain things. So what I want to say to come back to Swarm Intelligence, As soon as people understand, oh, this is useful for my task and this can help me to like save a lot of time and then take the time better to maybe like have better relations with my partners, with my employees, or maybe even like to think about social media. How could I like scale the impact of that video? Then people will come up with ideas. So the benefit for companies is that if you really take the time to invest into training and people feel comfortable in their daily tasks, they don't need to solve world problems, but just in their daily tasks, they will actually find ways to make your business much more efficient.
[13:46] Yeah, I think you're right on that. But just to come a little bit back on the other point, don't we lose a lot of authenticity there? I mean, you said, for example, you uploaded two minutes of the best version of yourself and it will be a nice avatar.
[14:00] But don't we miss a little bit of everything? I mean, also, don't we lose a little bit of trust also as well on that? I mean, it's different that Vanessa talking to me and it's different when the avatar of Vanessa might be the best version of herself. It doesn't matter. I don't have a connection with this entity, let's say, as I have to Vanessa.
[14:23] So isn't it the same sometimes as with other AI aspects? Yeah, no, it's a very important point, actually, because I think also it is also a question, what do you want to automate or to AI generate? So, for example, I always said in my executive workshops, when I showed them the avatar, right, I always told them, okay, now if you now think about you can do everything with the avatar, be careful. One, about trust, because if you then use an avatar and maybe send out your Christmas cards or your communication to your employees and it's not yourself anymore, it also has like a perception, right? They are not worthy enough to take your personal time to create a video. So, but if you maybe look at communication that is just like going wherever or Q&A sections or maybe training materials, I think nobody really cares if it's me, Vanessa doing now like eight hours of training myself in front of like the screen or is it my avatar? But it's different, for example, as you said, for Christmas cards or for a personal interaction. And number two.
[15:26] Which is very important, also is about the IP topic. So I think it's always very important that if you're using avatars or other AI tools that you always indicate that that's not Vanessa anymore, that's Vanessa's avatar, right? Just also to be safe about security topics. But yes, I agree. So it's swarm intelligence in the sense of like being more efficient, being more effective, maybe having the same or better quality, but then also making them decide what do we want to automate and what don't we want to automate and where do we even say, okay, it takes us eight times more time to do it but it's worth it because we stay human, we stay authentic.
[16:08] We really appreciate or we really see the value in it. Yeah, I think this is the, we see it every time with technology, radical changes something, the originality becomes a niche and this niche is actually very, very important. Sometimes it goes backwards the trend, some goes forwards, but this still becomes a niche.
[16:30] I mean, the technology and the adoption and of course the change, it's relevant for every company. But what I wanted to say is help a lot of companies.
[16:39] In this step, you just were with them along the way and so on and so forth.
[16:44] We have seen things that have been successful, but i'm interested on the things that have not been successful so what have you seen for example you could say pinpoint out of your brain right now and say you know i remember that have to be a name uh it's important though to explain us where have you seen something that really failed and perhaps point out why it has failed in these terms for this transformation that'd be interesting for me at least yeah for sure so i think there are different kind of examples for like failing in it And so even though I say Fobo is like something that holds us back, I also believe that if you maybe do two big steps which are not thought through, it can also be backfiring. So for example, I have two examples. One of them, I can't say the name, the other one, I won't because I'm not sure if that was public. But the first one is like Klarna. So Klarna, like the payment provider where you can like order from H&M and other companies and then pay over Klarna in 30 days or whatever. So they want to make an IPO. I'm not sure if they now already did, but they wanted. So they had, of course, to have a very good story. So they said, OK, we automate like a lot of positions in sales services and after sales services with AI.
[18:05] They could also like show like that they had the same quality in their promoter score with customers while only using like one, I think, tenth of the time that they needed before. So it was great. But they realized after some time the quality was not as good as they hoped. And so now even though they actually reduced their headcount by a lot, they now needed to like again hire. Rehire. Yeah, rehire because they saw it was not working. Their overall strategy was not to fire people from the positions, but it was more about if people quit, they would not replace the position. And so they went actually down, so to say, in their headcount, but now they saw that it's not working as perfect as they thought. Number two is about introducing chatbots or AI systems with customer relations, customer facing, so to say. So there is like one very big furniture company a lot of people know around the globe and they actually very early on realized that ai can be of help for the q a section and also in the online chat so to say so they trained the the ai like according to their q a but i think i guess they didn't train the ai on all manuals and so if people for example actually like ask them okay hey, I bought this furniture, can I also just put it in the middle of the room?
[19:35] The guideline or the manual would have said, no, you can't. You need to put it on the wall and also mobilize it, screw it. But the AI thought, yeah, why not, right? It's just like a furniture, you can put it anywhere. So they actually advised the customer, yeah, of course, just do whatever. And that was actually a chatbot, not in Europe, but in the US. And you know how the US customers are if you then have a problem. So you have a lot of legal claims and so on. That's like a second example.
[20:04] I think overall, there are many examples that it can go wrong. I think what I can say in the end is on the one hand that it's not about technology. It's very much about trust. It's very much about orientation in this time of change. So people need to have some guidance. It's also about like impact. So I think it's very important that you can somehow measure what it brings to the table, because otherwise it just contributes to the fobo of the executive board that says, okay, we now invested so much money, but we don't see any results. So it needs to come together. And so it's not just about thinking short term, what can we optimize, but really what you said about mid to long term. So what do we maybe even lose if we automate everything?
[20:52] And what can we gain if we maybe still have people that do manual stuff or do the checking so that we, on the one hand, don't lose the quality, but on the other hand also that we as a company don't get stupid. Yeah, that's for sure. And we see it also in the same time. I mean, Klarna is also a very good example, but on the same side, we see it also in Switzerland. We have this Fachkräftemangel. So let's say the shortage of skills and people. Actually, not only skills, but also people. Because we have jobs that they have need to be done. And it's not about only skills, but you don't find the people. So it's both sides of the coin. So I think AI has a place there in any way, in any company and in any change. I'm fully with you there. I mean, a lot of companies need to do the homework. Otherwise, it doesn't adopt and you just invest it a lot. And I think personally, there will be always a part that we will interact with people. The interaction part will always be there, especially in the B2B sector. I agree. That will not change. Of course, they will be much more comfortable.
[21:55] Perhaps the cost structure will be different. But at the end of the day.
[21:59] People like to to buy or to interact with people yeah that's one side but i would like to take you back to another point i mean i know you from different channels and i know that you're extremely nice network and you like to network and you you are um also very present so what's what's the secret sauce of networking for you at least i mean yeah for me at least there's no secret source and that's a stupid question but in terms of there is a secret source how you do it in order to be you know work for you let's say as a person let's say as a young woman and what's actually in the markets yeah so i think i i never actually realized it when i was like starting with networking they would be such a big asset to be honest it just somehow happened and.
[22:48] I actually like doing it and it helped me to accelerate my sales pipeline so to say and it's always good if you know people but to come to your question so i think three main elements are very relevant doing like networking first of all it's preparation so i think if you maybe are not the most outgoing person or if you overall don't feel comfortable in like a setup where you need to be outgoing preparation helps a lot so prepare um in the sense if you go to an event and you know this or that person will be there or that company then make your homework and prepare like to know who is Dimitrius? What has he achieved? What are maybe main topics about him? What could I authentically say what I really like about the work he is doing, right? Because I think authenticity is also very important.
[23:36] And then if you prepare well, so to say, you feel more comfortable that if you go there, you don't feel like, oh, what should I say now? What could I do? But you're like already, okay, I know what to say. I know what I want to deliver and I can prepare, right? I can try and train beforehand. Number two, for me personally, I already... Before you go to two, I have a question here, because if you don't prepare, it becomes dating.
[23:59] It's like, you know, you have a lot of awkward moments and then it becomes... Yeah, so I think it also depends, right? It depends who is your counterpart. So I very often needed to network with C-level executives. So they are used to a lot of people talk to them and they get annoyed by it. So if you don't have relevant content, they will just think like, who are you and just walk away or even ignore you or say something like uncomfortable. So maybe if it's more on eye level, in a sense, if you're like a junior, so to say coming to someone is also true it's easier you can just talk about whatever but the thing is if you don't prepare the perception of who you are can be diluted right if i just talk about weather about the food is good about oh yeah the event was really very prepared you don't stay into someone's mind right the the main task is that people go back home after an event or after interaction and say oh i remember that one girl she actually had such good point about whatever you know because the honest or like the world reality is that people meet a lot of people yeah you stick in someone's mind because you did something different.
[25:13] You were unique you maybe had a good aura you had like a good point you had good energy so to say and if you are the person gets nervous if you don't know what to do you will lose all of that you will not have unique edge you don't will have energy you don't feel like comfortable you don't feel like someone being yeah.
[25:38] Yeah, prepared for the moment, so to say. So that's like what I, so I could go there and just like talk about whatever, but people would then say, okay, yeah, she was maybe nice, but she was not anything special. Very special, yeah.
[25:50] Number two is really about authenticity. So for me personally, there are so many people that I do business with. And of course, if I would now pick who are my friends, I would not pick everybody, right? So for me, it's really about finding something I'm interested in. So even if the person is quite introverted or maybe even boring or even like i don't know like you'd think like okay how should i really like stay now for half an hour and talk to that person i always try to find something that i'm really interested about the person and that can be that someone has like a hobby like doing fishing or like maybe going to like a country where they very often go there maybe also have been before so i really try to find something that we can connect and that doesn't mean that we are connecting on energy level or on like all the opinions but just one topic so that's and then if you're interested in a topic it also sticks to you so that when you meet again you can say oh how were your vacation in greece right um did you again enjoy this or that so it's easier than to remember and to build network bridges so to say that there is like a relationship, right?
[26:57] And lastly, I think, which is really relevant if you do networking, so to say, is that you think about what to do with that connection, right? Yeah. So if you just go around, you're super unique, everybody's thinking about you being in either bed, also be careful that it's only about business and not about something else. Yeah, but it's actually, it's a valid point. It's a valid point.
[27:19] If you're a young woman, and I think, yeah, you will definitely have some stories that's been, I mean.
[27:28] Outside of borders exactly so be very clear as a third point for what you want that connection right so maybe if you talk about something and you get their interest and you're authentic about what you're interested then also like immediately bring it to action that is helpful for you so if you organize an event say hey i want to have you for speaker or as a speaker for my event if you're selling some kind of software you can say hey i don't want to be a salesperson but i really would like to show you like a demo how we're doing things or maybe bring you together with my customers that already use the technology or whatever right so that's very important and and for my like as a side tip if you ever are in I think it's a privilege to meet like successful people and to go together and and and talk about things talk about business and to be assured that it never gets into like sloppery slopes and strange kind of setups always only go for lunches and never for dinner little tip so yeah because dinner is like always like it can be both right of course you need to eat at the evening but you could also spend the time with your friends or your family so if you like meet for dinner you can meet for dinner and have an agenda and as soon as you're over you're like okay thank you so much so I will send you tomorrow the backup information and whatever was really great and leave.
[28:50] But lunch is much more… It's boxed. It's boxed. You need to go back to office. You cannot drink alcohol. So you can, but you shouldn't too much, right? Yeah, but you have boundaries there.
[29:01] So for girls or for women, that's a really important… It's also for men, by the way. Also for men. I tell you, I mean, this coin also has two sides. I mean, also for us has been having, you know, you have a private life, whatever it is. I mean, at dinner, it always drugs. And although it's nice for the networking part, and I understand, at the same time, I don't think, it's very rare that business requires a dinner. Yeah. I mean, that's my conclusion.
[29:35] It is true. Usually a dinner is nice when you have clothes, something, you have a good corporation, you go out and you celebrate it. It's not about the business but us just like acknowledgement of the good work that this has happened but, and then it's much more valid that's how I prefer dinners or prioritize dinners at least from my side no I agree and maybe one addition as you said it I mean for everybody male female whatever if you're young and more junior, you will have comments or like people how they look at you that you perceive okay they feel like Like I'm not good enough, not senior enough. They have this kind of perception of me. I was always like...
[30:20] Dealing with it with just like overwhelming them with competence and staying calm yeah so i had like one meeting where i actually met with someone from a big um company here in switzerland that is also organized by the bund right and we sat together and i i actually at that time i was working at sea level as ceo uh so i introduced myself and he said you are the ceo of sea level And I said, yes. So he was like, so that's the boss of C-Level. And I was like, yes. And he was like, hmm, looked at me like from top to bottom, like interesting and made like some notes. And I just really, I didn't like, I didn't got bothered. I was just like, yeah, okay, cool. And then I told, like told him why he would have access over me to like certain people and that he needs to go through me. And then the end of the meeting was really like wow i was so impressed and and and he also like apologized for like like not giving me that credit so it's not about in that moment to give arguments just just leave it just leave it in the room but then like overwhelm the person with like your competence with your knowledge with yeah your self-esteem so to say and then people will realize that they made a mistake that was like maybe they're old kind of thinking about stuff oh it's I mean, to be honest, it's not the old thinking. Sometimes, I mean, I've left it as well. I mean, I've studied a lot in my life. I'm not a native German speaker. Work in Switzerland.
[31:49] Sometimes you feel marginalized, and it's exactly what you said. It's not about being a human, a woman. There's perceptions and there are stereotypes.
[31:59] And sometimes, as you said, be calm, let it drop, and pick it up by yourself. Blur them with competence or at least with your good work and then I think people then you build a much stronger connection and as before as just accepting you as a CEO of C-Level or whoever you are at the end of the day I think I have another point I mean you mentioned about networking now we see a lot of change,
[32:26] also in the culture I mean a lot of companies have cancelled dropped all their inclusion, diverse and inclusive, inclusiveness boards let's say and roles and a lot of women come into stress I mean that's what I feel from the market, so I mean how they will be included if there will be competition, how's your take on that I mean you have talked to a lot of C-levels and of course some of these decisions have been taken from companies you've worked perhaps with or CEOs thinking about it So what's your take? Let's say that would be the impact in the company side, but on the same side, what can those women, let's say what feel that this drop out of the day, um.
[33:15] Will fall down and what will be the impact for them, what they can do against it. So you mean like overall, what can women do to like have a culture that is more inclusive? More inclusive because now this drops. Apart from like just having like some kind of like written. Yeah, there were some goals that the company was, at least they have rationalized or instrumentalized that inside the companies how to promote, consider, whatever.
[33:46] Diversity and now they have dropped it out and say you know what business as usual and of course that become the first instinct of course for a lot of women were now we will have to fight, the thing uh the organization against men or against whatever it is so but what's your take let's say from both sides from the company side that they they dropped it but also what can women do let's say you know that they have felt this fear so i think that's a very challenging question i i have to say that i was lucky enough that i never had that problem in my setup so i often was criticized that i am like um hiring too many women and that i give them like too much like freedom so to say um but what i can say i think overall is is maybe helps for some or the other I think if certain things go down and are dropping, which are not in your favor, I would always try to find a sponsor within the organization that nevertheless takes it very serious because the person maybe has...
[34:50] Um girls themselves or like daughters or because he or she believes that it's very important so i would i think of course a company has a statement on certain things but what is much more success or like important for success is having a sponsor and a mentor so i would try to find someone i can connect on that sees the potential in me and like brings me along the road whatever is possible right so give me visibility give me credit and so on and then if i have that if i found that sponsor then i can also negotiate and say why would i get less money than maybe a male colleague so to say or why should i do more work for the same payment if otherwise you need to hire someone else right and like argument more on that turf so to say um and then the second point i would just say i mean it's easier said than done
[35:39] uh which is like um either love it change it or leave it.
[35:45] So try to love the setup if it doesn't if you don't love it because something changes incrementally that is really not coming together with your own values try to change it I think you will be more successful to go to someone that can help you along your journey and then of course you can give back right so I was very much like promoted very early on in my career by my, boss so to say and i appreciate it so a lot that i always did the same for my my people then, and last one is you really come to conclusion it's not working for you then go somewhere else where it doesn't need to be a manifest right i mean there are so many companies where you have like these claims on the wall the more important part is it is it lived by the people right It's really a cultural topic that people care that they really want the world to be as good as it is possible, right? Is it mechanical or is it cultural? Exactly. Because I think exactly the earlier point, a lot of companies have used it very mechanically just to do it and not really lived about it. And I think it's much more relevant. And I fully agree with you that check a company has it or doesn't have it, doesn't matter if they are actually living by that and it's more important.
[37:03] Vanessa, it was a breath of pressure. I really, really thank you for being here. Of course. Thank you so much. It was really a lot of fun and I hope I had some
[37:10] insights that are available for everybody. Absolutely. I think both facets, let's say, from adoption, from the new chains of AI, but also, let's say, your networking tips, I find it really, really interesting. because I think people miss that part. I mean, they think we just need network, but what's the effort I have to do? I mean, it's usually the thing I have to take, not to give. Usually it's about giving and then you will take.
[37:35] And, of course, I think your take, and I always use this question when I have a woman here in the podcast, how this impacts, let's say, a woman from a woman's perspective of market. But you're the second person, and I find it interesting. Andrea Wucher was here, was also a manager, and she said exactly the same. Love it, change it, or leave it.
[37:57] And I find it seems like you ladies, managers, whatever, have the same motors in the back. But anyway, I think you're absolutely right on that. I think you need to know your value, so to say. Yes. If you know your value and if you know your right and if you know that's your belief, then you can try to argument. But if you do not manage to get further, yourself is more important than any role or any position that you have. Oh, yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, it's about you. It's not about the companies. The companies, of course, as you said in the example, they try to do the best for themselves, like an entity, of course. And at the end of the day, it's where I am staying against it. Right? Yeah. Thank you very, very much, Vanessa, once again. Thank you, Dimitrius. Thank you. It was a lot of fun. Thank you. I hope so. And I hope it was fun for you. We'll be in touch, Vanessa. This was the last episode of the first season. So we'll have a bit of refreshment, let's say, for the next year. And I hope we all stay in touch for the summer. I wish you all enjoy. Enjoy the time. And we'll be in touch again in September. For all of you, stay healthy and see you then.
