#Barbara Radtke : A Nurse's Journey to Entrepreneurship

In this episode, I engage with Barbara Ratke, a trailblazer in healthcare and entrepreneurship, to uncover her inspiring journey. Barbara shares how an unexpected stint in an elderly home ignited her passion for caregiving, leading to a fulfilling yet challenging nursing career. Her transition to entrepreneurship was fueled by personal struggles, including advocating for her ill child, which drove her to establish a home-care company addressing gaps in the healthcare system.  

We explore her resilience in navigating the uncertainties of business, particularly as a woman, and the vital role of mentorship in overcoming self-doubt. Barbara reflects on pressing healthcare challenges, such as rising costs and evolving workforce demands, and discusses the transformative potential of AI when used ethically.  

She concludes with advice for aspiring entrepreneurs, emphasizing autonomy and meaningful mentorship. Barbara’s story is a powerful testament to innovation, community, and the strength to turn challenges into opportunities.

How do today’s leaders cut through the noise and shape the future?

In each episode of From Noise to Sound, host Dr. Dimitrios Marinos, from the Department of Marketing and Communication at HSLU, dives deep with CEOs, Board Members, and industry innovators to uncover the forces reshaping our world. Through insightful conversations, he explores topics like digital transformation, consumer behavior, and sustainability, revealing strategies and innovations that are driving real change.

Gain actionable insights and fresh perspectives on navigating a complex business landscape. Tune in each month to sharpen your view on leadership, tech-driven success, and what’s next in marketing and beyond.

New episodes every month, brought to you by HSLU, Lucerne University of Applied Sciences and Arts.

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Chapters

• 4:20 How I started!
• 9:45 How did Barbara became an enterpreneur.
• 16:54 Self Awareness
• 22:54 Swiss Healthcare challenges
• 35:42 Hands-on CEO!

Transcript

[0:01] Everything it's you have to work a lot with with sense also with because you cannot talk to them okay you have to do this because they don't understand it so you have to find other ways how to convince people that you're not a threat that you want to be helpful for them but then of course later when you do education more when you learn more you work in hospitals, You have more people who are very aware. They do regular operations. So it's a different kind of work you do and where you specialize at the end. But I think for me it was always also interesting the face of when people were dying. This is for a lot of people. They were very, very scared of that.

[0:50] So hello and welcome to the podcast from Nights to Sound presented from Haisalou. I'm Dimitrius Marinus. And as I promised, I'm trying to bring you inspiring personalities who actually have a focus on their segment. And I will be very much excited if you support this initiative and subscribe in Spotify and YouTube, but also in LinkedIn, where I will be able to give you some insights also in statistics, some articles and so on most frequently. So today I'm very much excited for my guests. She is actually a healthcare grand dam, so in my head. She is actually very successful in what she's done. She's already created companies in healthcare. She has done all the pyramid of the healthcare segment from the bottom to the top. And I actually would like to hear this story from her as well and share it with you. That was the main motivation at the beginning. And I couldn't be more excited that she's today with us.

[2:02] Music.

[2:09] Hello, Barbara. Hello, Dimi. I'm glad to be here. Thanks for the invitation. Thank you, Barbara. Barbara Ratke, she's actually... Working a lot intensively the last years in healthcare. I'm very much interested to hear from your side. I mean, what actually, from your perspective, what actually moved you in this segment from the beginning? Actually, it was not really my first choice when I started to get into healthcare. It was more like I was looking for a job And there was an announcement in the newspaper that someone was looking, an elderly home was looking for a helper for a few months. So I went in this elderly home and did a practicum there. And I got inspired not by how they treated these people. I was inspired more to get to know more about medicine, about the complexity of human body.

[3:17] I was interested then to learn more. So actually I started then my first profession as a nurse. As a nurse. Actually, it's one of the jobs I think. It's one of the most difficult jobs to do when you've really been to a hospital and you've seen the work that these people are actually doing. It's very hard, and not only from the physical perspective, but also from the mental one. And I think that's a very big challenge. And I was wondering, how do you tackle this balance between the mental struggle? Let's say you have to endure as a nurse, but also the physical. I mean, you have to do with the patient, help the patient practically. Practically but also empathically be helpful with him but also be present while you're doing so.

[4:05] I think this is something with you build while you grow and with the experience

[4:11] you get I mean when I when I started I was 21 and I was let's say just a young lady with no experience in that field and I, In the beginning, it was very difficult because when you treat dementia people, when you treat people who have forgotten everything, you have to work a lot with sense also because you cannot talk to them, okay, you have to do this because they don't understand it. So you have to find other ways how to convince people that you're not a threat, that you want to be helpful for them. But then, of course, later when you do education more, when you learn more, you work in hospitals, you have more people who are very aware, they do regular operations. So it's a different kind of work you do and where you specialize at the end. But I think for me it was always also interesting the face of when people were dying.

[5:13] This is for a lot of people, they were very, very scared of that. But for me, this was so interesting to see this process when you could see this transition when they start to go and how the family is reacting, if there is a family, how this dynamic went at the end. For me, this was actually one of the most interesting phase which I have ever experienced in healthcare. Yeah i can i can only imagine and i mean usually ourselves we experience in a very private life but then the experience is on top you know in professional life and every week or daily perhaps it's definitely a completely different experience that changes you as a person so for me it's also interesting i mean you shift it from from nurse to entrepreneur.

[6:11] This is not something very common and i think that's i find very inspiring to your story so how did you when it was this um erica moment where you said you know what i can do it better and i i can build you know a company and try it and where do you find the courage for that because being an entrepreneur is it's not something that you're born with it you need some courage for that yeah actually it was not something i was looking for i have to say i I was quite a few years, I was employed in different companies.

[6:44] I did also further education. I was a teacher for nurses. I was in management in hospitals.

[6:51] And then I also had kids, three kids. And there was one day one of my kids got very ill. So we had to go very often to the hospital. It was a very difficult situation. And we realized that with the normal home care organization was very difficult to manage. So, and actually, this was my trigger point where I said, okay, I want to do something different. I want to do something better. I want to do a private home care company. And actually, I had no clue about anything. I could not even read the bilance. I was not educated for numbers, statistics, and whatever. I was just a good nurse, and I had friends, and I had trust, and I tried. Actually, it was the moment which I founded the company was a bit difficult because we just bought a house, and I had three little kids. So actually, it was a bit difficult to start. But in a way, I was just convinced that I want to try. And I had support from my family. This was really important. Because, I mean, the first year I had really not no income. So I put everything what I earned back in the company to make it sustainable.

[8:19] And so everything started. My entrepreneurship started 2009 and until today, exactly. So this was the start. I was, as a young mother, I became an entrepreneur. Entrepreneur, yeah. Well, you know, that's what I, I mean, And I can speak also from my experience in entrepreneurship, sometimes, you know, to start a company, and I've heard it also, you know, in some other discussions, you have to have a little bit of naivety. You should not be able to calculate all risk because if you see all the risk, it's actually very scary sometimes. So you don't do it. So I think it's natural that you couldn't see and then you jump in. But I think these elements, as you mentioned, that you had your family, for example, or you have your friends and you have the support. If you couldn't read the balance sheet, it's technical. It comes. I mean, you will always learn it. But it's important that you have this back help, let's say, somehow that you know is going to drown. And it's also very important, as you mentioned, that I could do it better. In this feeling, I could do it better. When you have a problem and you see that someone cannot solve it and I could do it better.

[9:28] Or maybe I could do it different. Oh, different. Exactly. Maybe not better because

[9:33] I am sure that what the other companies did was good, but it was not what we needed. Exactly. So I was actually, and I think a lot of startups, they are built because someone has a need and there is no solution of it. Yeah. Or someone is really pissed off of something which is not going to work properly. Absolutely. So I think these two main reasons I perceived from a lot of startups, this triggered them to build something new. So I want just to touch point a little bit to something you mentioned before. I mean, one thing is, of course, the naivety to start of not knowing everything. The other thing you mentioned is you were before a nurse and you have seen struggles, you have seen death, you have seen ill people. And that had an impact in your mindset. Did it help when you've been an entrepreneur to be a bit more resilient?

[10:30] I'm not sure if it has to do with the profession as a nurse. I think in every entrepreneurship, you need a character to be a little bit stubborn. Also, you need that you are willing to suffer a bit. Because entrepreneurship is a difficult story because it's not like, oh, you have an idea and then your company is already for millions worth. And you have all the investors who are waiting to buy you.

[11:05] I think entrepreneurship is also a very lonely process, especially in the beginning, because you're alone. You have to look for potential proof of market. You have to find people who believe in you. And especially when the business is growing slowly, you have to hire people. You make mistakes. You hire the wrong people. You lose money. You whatever. I mean, you're from the organizing the laptop for everyone till you do negotiation with potential customers. So it's like you're a bit an all-rounder. And it's not like you have from the beginning a secretary who is organizing everything for you. And I think this is something successful entrepreneurs, they need this kind of skills to roll their leaves on and say, okay, I don't know if I will be successful. But I will try at least and I will do my best and I will try to make it as good as possible and I will have the strength, even if it's difficult.

[12:08] To get another try and to make it better and to solve the problem because it's always your name because you're the head of this company and if there is a trouble, it's you. It's not your boss. It's not someone else. It's you. So this is also a big motivation. Yeah, and the ego. And it's the ego behind it. Make it good, yeah. I mean, it's your ego that's placed sometimes. As you mentioned, you don't have a secretary all the time there that is actually someone serves you on that, or you have someone on your side and say, yeah, I'll support there. It's your ego that you have to play with and put your ego down and roll your sleeves, as you mentioned, which is not always so easy. And you don't learn entrepreneurship. I mean, I think that is also another lesson, I think. I mean, I took this lesson as well. I'm pretty confident in you as well. No matter where you go and study and whatever you do, entrepreneurship, you learn it in the field. Period. Exactly. What is the hardest lesson you learned there? Which actually, not only from the entrepreneurship side, but also personally actually moved you. I mean, something that defined you also as well on this struggle. Yeah.

[13:22] I think every person has different struggles. It also has to do a lot how you function as a person and what is difficult for you. So I'm not very much a person who likes to be on stage and I'm not very a good salesperson. So this was... You did very well for that. So for me, this was actually the biggest hurdle I had to come over. And this later i had the big help because i had a very good mentor women which was very successful and she was completely the opposite of me and she helped me along the way to get me she really pushed me in some contest and uh some uh yeah swiss economic forum etc etc and she said okay go on stage go on stage make your speech and i was really terrifying i nearly died on this stage because it's really not me but this is something i overcame this fear and i said okay okay i try i try and after a while i got more confident i got more um it's you learn you grow with everything so it's what maybe is the beginning a hurdle is maybe two years later is something different and like... The skill. Exactly, the skill changes and then there come new challenges which you have never thought about.

[14:50] You have to hire, when you have a lot of people, you have to structure these people, you have to find new markets, you have potential problems maybe with customers, something goes wrong or people make mistakes which are really bad or whatever. So it's your own ways, yeah, fixing some problems and it helps you to learn, yeah. Yeah, I think, And I also think the same at the end of the day. That's the main focus as well. I mean, that's the fun part of entrepreneurship that you learn. I mean, apart from the struggle, you learn over that. So at some point, I mean, you had your company. I mean, and with your company, I mean, you were very broad in the healthcare segment.

[15:34] I mean, this is the first step. So you meant the first step from, I would say, employee, nurse, and then you get an entrepreneur. Which is actually a very big step to do. And then you established yourself. How does someone go from that to be in the board of directors of a company or a hospital, like Inselspita at the moment? How do you come across that? Did you do something that you searched about it, that it came across your table? How does someone tell you something like that?

[16:06] Yeah, I think it's...

[16:09] Came a little bit with networking i'm as i said i'm not very much into the small talks on the on the on the events uh i my motto is always less is more so i like to have less people but i have more contact with so in every education i have i maybe pick two or three nice people i still had contact and i want to and then of course i i was always interested in in board in strategy and then i also did some education in that i was also after

[16:44] the house gay i did some more um uh in insead etc and then actually the the the board in insel uh a headhunter brought my cv which i did not even know So one day I got a phone call from Insel, from the director of the board and said, Alison, we got your CV and we're looking for someone.

[17:10] Would you like to come for an interview? I was completely surprised because I have never thought about that and this actually was six years ago and this gave me a great insight of course in a very interesting big company which I really learned a lot and I also think with my experience I had from the field I could also give them some benefits from real life what people suffer maybe.

[17:40] That's what we usually see in the board of directors, usually in the board of directors people who are very good established, but they don't know the business bottom-up, like you know it's being a nurse, let's say, knowing all the levels of problems, where can it be from nurse management, middle management, owner of such a healthcare company, and so on, so forth, so let's say the third parties. So if you look a little bit now in Switzerland, let's say, the healthcare segment.

[18:06] What would you say from your experience of the top three, I would say, challenges that you see right now or perhaps that you see are coming from your perspective in the healthcare segment? Yeah. I think there are different topics which challenges are coming from. If you look in the ambulance sector, people live longer and they want to stay home. I think this is a big trend, which will be a big question also, how can this be paid? How can this be organized? I mean, there is one company I founded a few years ago is which to hire caring relatives and they get paid. So this was a big success. I can understand. And of course, this creates also other problems now because this is now a huge growing market. And this is now it can cause a lot of costs now for the health care system. So everything which there is a need and you try to solve the problem, of course, there is something which creates another problem, maybe. Disstraps. I think in the hospital environment, I think that the costs are a big problem because the tarife have not...

[19:27] Have stayed stable for many many years so all the innovation who came and all the renovation all the buildings etc what a hospital has to do they are not be seen in the in the tariff yet just now and also there is a change of behavior the new generation has different attitude than the doctors 40 years ago so the Hospitals also have to change their ways of how to treat people, how to employ people, and labor. I mean, it's everywhere. A big topic. It's difficult to find good people. It's difficult to keep them. The younger generation, they are more sensible for work-life balance. They don't want to work 50 hours a week anymore.

[20:18] It's a big challenge to find a good regulation for this system. And also, I mean, we have a lot of hospitals here. I think not a lot of countries have so many hospitals. Really? Is it the case? In this little space. So I think there will be, in the next few years, there will be maybe some discussions about bringing centers together or whatever so i think it's the health care is at the moment in a big big change, and there are many challenges faced on regulations on costs and on labor on labor yeah i think i mean i'm coming from the it side and i can say this is exactly the same i don't know at the moment the segment who says you know we're very comfortable with people, I mean, we have enough, thank you, especially in Switzerland.

[21:16] Which actually has these two effects. If you cannot find the people, then the cost is going very high, and then you cannot retain. I mean, I don't know. Is it in healthcare? I mean, healthcare is also critical. It's not like in IT that you can really use external or you go out of the country and so on and so forth. And in healthcare as I mentioned it's critical did you see a way of hedging this problem at the moment or are there any ways to do that.

[21:50] Yeah I, I think there is, I mean, I can only talk about my experience. I saw that, especially in the ambulant sector, when people want to stay a longer home, there are multiple problems. Because if you have someone in the family, let's say parents who are getting old, you have to look for someone. Then either if you are a person who has a very good network here, then you're super lucky. If this network is also willing to support, then you are super, super lucky. But I think most of the people, I mean, family structures, they changed a lot. They changed a lot in the last years.

[22:33] People have jobs, very demanding jobs. They don't have time to take care of the... So then now it's this new trend also that someone from abroad lives at this people's house.

[22:48] So of course this can be a good solution and uh so this has to be figured out how this is this is possible the right person etc but these people are missing in their country and i think this is it's like uh okay these people from poland they come to switzerland and these people then because they earn here more but then they abandon their families there and they are also missing in their healthcare system there. So it's like a movement. It's a chain of problems. Exactly, which I don't think is very healthy. And I think we here in Switzerland, we have options for people. They want to do something sustainable. They want to do something which has a meaning. Even more people have this desire that it's not all about money. It's also about I want to do something which has a purpose.

[23:42] So I think if we can, make this job to take care of someone a bit more meaningful i think this has to do with the attitude and i think it's a beginning that caring relative are paid but i think it's more than that i think all our thoughts has to be changed a bit if we want to solve the problem it's it's uh It's intrinsic, let's say you should. It's kind of intrinsic, but it should also fit in a way that you can live. Culturally, you mean? Exactly. I think that the time is over that all the ladies then, of course, they have to get married and then they take care for the parents. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like. Time's over. Ladies today, they have good education. They are fit. They are agile. They want to do. And I don't know. Between us. I don't know if we as men would like to have this old model as well. I strongly doubt. Exactly. So it has to be something which, okay, if someone says, look, for me, this is important because for me, my family is important or maybe another person is important.

[24:53] But it has to be in a way honored that it's not just, ah, okay, she has time. She can do it. Or he can do it. It should be like more, like in the thousand countries, it's very different. It's more natural that you take care of each other. Yeah. And I think the more northern you go, it's more… Distant.

[25:20] Distant, and also it's a little bit more delegated. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I can say from my experience also, my family are coming from Greece from the south. So, it's always, it has both sides. It can be also a struggle because you're bounded on one side. But on the other side of course it's honoring also the family as you say it's both sides so for me just a clarification here just the home office trend that we had after corona helped a little bit this situation.

[25:50] In general is it something that now that the younger generation can stay at home to work and take care of elderly people who are on the other floor or downstairs or whatever did it help the situation or it actually didn't didn't help at all i don't know if it helped really, to that more people got into this care because i think uh home office if you do home office you should do your home office properly and you have to be in a good setup that you can really work when you are at home and you have a good setup so if you then it's like if you do home office with little kids it's also very difficult so it's but i think in general home office can help maybe to combine a job better so if you have a job which has interaction with people but also.

[26:40] Includes emails etc so if you take a day just do some paperwork of course it's easy to do at home and you can do some sport it's like there is some way of to get healthy on the long run i think if if this can be combined it would be good it would be good all right now you have seen also, small companies i mean your company in the respect for example to Inselspital. I mean, there's two different worlds. So how do you think technology here? Now we have this trend of AI. And of course, I'm sure you also come across, I mean, there's a lot of startups and ideas about that, but also assuming a hospital as a company like Inselspital, where you have the problem with finding people, the right people and so on and so forth. Now, of course, naturally, you tend to go to technology, so technology might help us. Do you see a way out through technology, or is technology something that will solve problems there? Do you use something that already AI-wise in healthcare that you know and say that's sexy enough?

[27:53] I think you have to make a difference between startups and KMU and big tanker. I mean, Inflospital is a great company which has a lot of innovation through the Forschung and through people who have very deep knowledge. And of course, they all try to do technology-wise next steps. Also, it's interesting to publish. You know, this is a learning place. It's a universal hospital. So learning and education is a big step.

[28:25] What I have seen, and I think this will be, of course, the future, I think AI and all this artificial learning is really a great tool to combine. I mean, two weeks ago, I wanted to do a skin checkup. So it was very difficult to find a dermatologist, which because they are all booked. So then i i found uh i found a praxis in zürich which they have a body skin scanner so i said okay this is interesting i want to try so i booked an appointment there and then i was there standing like you know at the airport when you are in this middle of this and then there was this uh i think there were more or less 50 cameras or 50 and then you had maybe 10 seconds they took all the pictures and then you saw yourself in 3D and every little Muttermahl you could see was exactly localized could see if it's.

[29:29] A good one or if there is potential something bad and you could the best thing is if I go next year, It can compare. Yeah. And of course, at the end, the doctor also made a double check to see. But this is, for me, I think the future. I think we will need AI to make a lot of things more based, information based, which can help also to give the people time back really for the people interaction. Not only, but I was reading, of course, a study. Now, the x-rays, for example, AI can read x-rays much better than a doctor at the moment because they are trained much faster. I mean, in respect to a human, of course, at the end of the day, a human has to check again and, as you mentioned, take the decision.

[30:24] But this is, I mean, I could 100% be on your side where you said, I mean, technology is going this direction. And this should be the case that we also, as humans, say, I want a second opinion. And this should be not only from second doctor, but from the technology, perhaps. Yeah, I wanted to take you a little bit back on the discussion you had before. I mean, you obviously had to climb all this mountain of entrepreneurship, as I mentioned before. And it was different times. I mean, the hype of startups and venture capitalists and whatever we talk today was probably not there as well, 100%. And for the new world, I mean, you were also a woman. Have you struggled as a woman there? I mean, have you seen something that you blocked you gender-wise? And of course, you said also before you had three kids at the same time, of course. How did you manage that?

[31:18] Yeah, I mean, my kids are now 25 is the oldest, 20 is the youngest. So my struggles when they were small was 15 years ago. So the times were also a little bit different than today. But of course, I mean, I was more or less in my old environment. I was the only one who really worked full time. I forgot sometimes the name of the teacher of my kids. I forgot sometimes to give them the super, super znuini in the morning. And if sometime there was a birthday or I had to bring a cake at school. School uh yeah i bought the cake and i did some uh decoration just because otherwise it was not possible but the the difficulty was more like i tried to make everything perfect i sometimes when i was at work i felt guilty because i'm not at home and sometimes when i was at home i felt guilty because i have to be at work so.

[32:19] I think this was my own problem, was not made by someone else. And I think when I had this mentor, which was for me a very good lesson, because, I mean, this lady never had kids and she was very much on business driven. So she gave me really a push to say, okay, listen, you have now two choices. Either you do part-time entrepreneurship and you're a part-time mother, or you really want to go into that and your kids can also be proud of you. So it's like, and sometimes when we had the discussion, I felt like, oh, sorry, you don't understand and you don't understand. And then she said, I'm not here to understand. I'm here to help you. And this was for me a big learning to overcome this idea of not fulfilling all the rules. And there I could really, I could say, okay, now I do it. And even later, sometime I felt a little bit like, did I give to my kids everything what they would have got, maybe whatever. But when I talk to my kids today, we have still a very good relationship. And I can feel they always say, you know, we are very proud that you have done, et cetera.

[33:36] And then I feel, okay, lucky me. Yeah, you balance it very nicely out. But I mean, it's not, but of course, I mean, time for yourself, you can forget. It's also difficult for relationship because if you it's, but I mean, you always have to do choices in life. And I think the important thing is that you do the choice you want and not what you feel like other people want for you. And even if you're lonely with this choice, but if you are sure it's the right choice for you I think people can feel it around you they can feel if you are convinced about something if you are convinced about your product or about your job what you're doing and if they feel it they trust you and then they also invest in you either time-wise or with advising or with money if you need or with as a board or whatever it's like but people have to be convinced that you are fully in if you are not.

[34:38] This is, then it's for no one good. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that's the biggest, the wrong, the most wrong decision that you can make as an entrepreneur, to be an entrepreneur just to say that I'm a CEO of my own company. I mean, if you just go down that road and down this trip, you just already lost. I think i i can i can say also from my experience i think the most interesting thing is just.

[35:05] That you build something and for yourself and you recognize yourself in whatever this is what you build because independent if it's as tesla or something small it doesn't matter it should be you and yeah it's your dna should be seen in uh in um you know i have never forgotten a very interesting moment when i had my first home care company i there

[35:34] was a an urgent call of someone i said you know my husband he's dying we need someone you need some caregivers for tonight and can you come and i think it was a friday around nine and i said no come on it's i let me have a little bit of time at home and then i said okay now and i said okay i come so i went to this family so there was this husband there and he looked at me and then he said um ah this is the name of your company who is this who is the owner of this company and then i say it's me and then he said okay that's a good sign it's friday nine o'clock you're the owner you are here i trust you.

[36:17] So we did not have to make a contract everything was clear because he was he was kind of a person he said okay if we shake hand you know everything will be fine and and i think this is what i just mentioned it's like if you go the extra mile if you do that what maybe other people would say and Now it's Friday, maybe I come tomorrow, but today it's my work-life balance, I need the rest.

[36:45] It can work, but sometimes it works better if you just do this little extra, which people appreciate very much. And it is a part of entrepreneurship, otherwise you're an employee, I would say. I mean, I fully get it. So, this last question from my side to you, Barbara. Now you have all this experience and of course there's people who listen to us some of them students, some of them young professionals others are professionals who actually had enough of their jobs there's everything, what kind of advice would you give them? Perhaps also reflecting back to Barbara 20 years, 15 years before or to someone who wanted to start right now I think maybe.

[37:33] I think maybe two advice would be good. One advice was good for me. In all the companies I have founded, I always founded it myself with my own money. I never had, in early stage, big investors, etc. And I think in none of the companies, I wanted to have external shareholders, which it could have been much easier for me to get a salary. But the freedom if the company is yours even if it's in the beginning small and you have to suffer a bit but the freedom to make the decision which is right for you and not just to fix numbers to please someone this i found is a big big gift and you also can create it the way you want it and then it means also this dna at the end it's really you and it's this is your product and this is your company and then of course later if you want to grow it and scale it of course if you then there is another story but I think.

[38:46] Don't let in too early too many people because you lose something yeah and I think and the second advice was for me was very very helpful especially when I was not experienced as a entrepreneur to have someone as a mentor to someone who is not included maybe not a board not a friend someone who gives you very brutal a mirror sometimes who said okay this is uh you can do better or things like that because this this should be a trust relationship but also a challenge and i think for me this helped me a lot to grow and i think this was a good way to explore also other ways of thinking from someone i could trust now barbara thanks very much i wouldn't i wouldn't change anything from what you said i mean i'm from both points i mean the first one absolutely i mean i've i also believe the same.

[39:47] Investing your own money in the beginning first of all you have to pain yourself so you take decisions right and having someone to to reflect is always absolutely vital because where you and you are an entrepreneur you're very lonely as you mentioned on on what you do you need this reflection point and this brutal truth sometimes, because you will struggle with live situations and so on and so forth. So, Barbara, thanks a lot for your time. Thanks a lot for being here. It was really refreshing to get your points for healthcare. Really, really amazing. Thank you very much. Thank you, Timmy. It was really a pleasure to be here. Thank you. Thank you very much. So I hope you all guys enjoyed Barbara Radke. I definitely enjoyed it as well. Please don't forget to subscribe, as I mentioned, in Spotify, YouTube, and also follow us in LinkedIn, where we will post more often also So interesting articles also. You hear also the updates from every podcast as well. Really, really much appreciate. And I hope you see us in the next episode of From Noise to Sound. Thank you very much and have a good time until then.

[40:59] Music.